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  •  Shotguns (4.00 / 11)

    are the best firearms for those untrained in their use.
    They are the best close-range weapons, and they do not require precision aiming.  Additionally, given a light enough load, say #4 or #6 shot, they can incapacitate or kill a target with lessened risk of overpenetration (projectiles passing through the target or the drywall behind him.)  20ga is suitable for a home defense shotgun for these reasons, as are the low velocity/recoil rounds that Alpha Geek mentions.

    I don't generally advocate firearms for home defense, because the primary stopper in their use is will.  That is to say that you must be willing to kill someone.  Thinking you will intimidate them or wound them generally won't work.
    I generally advocate dialling 911 from a bedside phone (or the nearest phone) and screaming like crazy.  The cops will come code 3.
    That said, if a person has experience with weapons, the easiest weapons to use are those with which one has experience.  In other words, if you shot an M-16 in the army, you should probably try to find a civilian counterpart to an M-16, and not something like an AK-47, and if your granddad taught you to shoot with a single action revolver, you probably shouldn't buy a .44 Desert Eagle.  In any event, if you are going to use a gun for home defense, you need to practice with it at a range every couple of months or so at a minimum in order that you know what to do when the time comes and you're scared out of your mind.

    "I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a democrat."--Will Rogers

    by soonergrunt on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:17:21 PM PDT

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    •  the great things about shotguns... (none / 1)

      ...is you can modify them to be non-lethal without anyone really KNOWING they're not lethal. Or so I've heard (rocksalt instead of buckshot).

      No one looking at a shotgun and hearing it being loaded is going to KNOW it won't kill them until it's fired so it still has that extra deterant to it. and if you did get hit with the rocksalt, if it's a direct on hit you're going to be in a little too much pain to really affectively counterattack.

      So I've heard.  ANyway it's the only time I'd even consider buying a shotgun.

      You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

      by DawnG on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:06:35 PM PDT

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      •  If I Had A Reloader... (none / 1)

        I always wanted to create a few 12 gauge "AP" shells consisting of rock salt and peppercorns.

        They'll get to scratch frantically for a few days...

        Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

        by Deacon G on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:16:39 PM PDT

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      •  rock salt? (4.00 / 4)

        If I am in my home and the screaming doesn't make the intruder leave I want them DEAD when I pull the trigger.  Rational people don't break into occupied homes and provolk confrontation-while people strung out on Crystal Meth do fairly bizare things.  I don't think I want to rely on the rock salt method of deterring someone who is unlikely to be affected.  If you need the gun, and you point it at someone who is threatening you bodily harm, be prepared to use it to kill them-or they may just use it to bash your brains out once the rock salt is gone.

        by The umpire on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:28:01 PM PDT

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        •  The First Round's AP, The Rest Lethal (none / 0)

          If the AP round doesn't get his attention, the other four will...

          Then again, I live in Florida; so even coming up to my doorstep screaming is not a good idea anymore.

          Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

          by Deacon G on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:38:01 PM PDT

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        •  Sound advice (4.00 / 2)

          If you are going to protect yourself with a gun, understand that it is there to kill, that is what guns do.  Respect its use and know what you are doing by getting educated (gun shops have info classes), pratice and be smart about how you keep the gun at home - your own or visiting children cannot ever, ever be trusted around loose firearms. If you cannot respect the responsibilty that comes with owning a gun and accept the fact that they are there do kill, do not own one.  

          IMPEACH

          by omw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:53:59 PM PDT

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          •  And use common sense. (4.00 / 2)

            I'm bipolar.  I get moody.  There will never be a gun in any house I live in.  There is just too much chance that I will reach for an easy way out at an extreme moment.  If you have a family member with a temper, or mood problems (depression, bipolarity), or who is just irresponsible get a large dog.  It's damn hard to kill yourself or someone else with a dog, and they are a terrific deterrent against criminals.  

            by dianem on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 10:47:37 PM PDT

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        •  Just be sure... (none / 0)

          ...to drag the body back into the house if they run after you blast them.  If they die inside, you're covered.  If they die outside, you could be charged with 2nd degree murder.  

          In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

          by ChuckLin on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:03:58 PM PDT

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        •  no thank you. (none / 0)

          I don't have anything against your argument but I have already made a choice in my life that I do not want to do the "kill or be killed" bit.  My personal belief is that there is much more to fear from killing than from dying.

          I'm going to die no matter what I do.  Spiritually, the when or the how is incosequential.  But actually taking a life...that is something I have the power to chose or not choose.  

          I'm not saying I'm against violence either.  I wouldn't mind learning a martial art for defensive purposes and have no problems harming a person to save my own life, but I won't take a life to save my own.  

          You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

          by DawnG on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 09:30:24 AM PDT

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          •  martial arts... (none / 0)

            ...nothing against them, but if you want to learn self-defense via your body, find someone that teaches real, nasty streetfighting techniques, say via a rape protection class.  Don't rely on books that purport to teach you - you need a real body for this purpose.

            I had a friend who was a black belt in a couple of martial art techniques, and they weren't enough to prevent her being raped.

            And do realize that we're talking about range versus battle.  You need a way to make a valid defense at a certain distance versus up close.  

            If a shotgun is not preferred, at a closer distance (but not yet close-in fighting), I would recommend buying a six foot or so hemlock dowell from your hardware store and turning it into a quarterstaff.

            What else can slip past
            An addled old man
            who dreams He vanquished Charlie?             (via Driftglass)

            by Palamedes on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 05:12:12 AM PDT

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      •  Wha??? (none / 0)

        Jeebus, this sounds like a LGF thread.

        by smapdi king on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:29:14 PM PDT

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        •  Well.... (none / 1)

          ....we are talking extreme circumstances here.

          And at least no one is talking about the benefits of surplus MG42s yet... ;-)))

          What else can slip past
          An addled old man
          who dreams He vanquished Charlie?           (via Driftglass)

          by Palamedes on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 05:13:05 AM PDT

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    •  Guns! AlphaGeek spawns lefty survivalist movement (4.00 / 5)

      Now all we need--for real--to take this country back--are teams of atheist missinaries. Seriously if more ex-boomers in birkenstocks are spotted at firing ranges honing their skill--the repubs will run for cover. The NRA will be turned inside out. Let's do it.

      I'm scared of guns but I'm willing to do this to survive. Just want to know if I can have a white gun with a pearl handle, like the one Nancy Reagan claimed to keep in her nightstand.

      by darcarama on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:17:08 PM PDT

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    •  They are the Polaroid of home defense... (none / 0)

      You know, point and click!

      Know your enemy - Rage Against the Machine

      by duck on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:15:47 PM PDT

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