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  •  Water and MREs? (4.00 / 10)

    When do i go shopping for the AK-47?

    by BlankLiberal on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:19:54 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not in California, I'll tell you that much (4.00 / 11)

      I'll give you a little preview of the personal-protection segment in Diary 3 of this series:

      For household protection, a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun with reduced-recoil shells and an inexpensive aftermarket recoil pad is the recommended choice.  The sound of a round being chambered in a pump-action shotgun is unmistakable, and the sight of it will give pause to most would-be assailants.

      For personal protection, each adult should have a contact-type electric stun device with spare batteries.

      The best strategy, however, is to avoid situations where the use or threat of force (lethal or nonlethal) is necessary.

      -AG

      "Watching George Bush trying to govern is like
      watching a monkey trying to f**k a football."
      I'm a libertarian, pro-2A capitalist Democrat.

      by AlphaGeek on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:29:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  12 gauge pump (4.00 / 5)

        Also good for upland bird hunting.

        For personal protection, pepper spray is great.  It works better on people than on grizzly bears, whom seem to like it at times.

        Who will stop this war of lies? Keith Olbermann May 23rd, 2007

        by Ed in Montana on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 01:52:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Good advice. And be sure to ... (4.00 / 7)

        ...put a sling on that shotgun. You may have to go on a long hike.

        I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

        by Meteor Blades on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:01:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Dogs (4.00 / 3)

        We use 3 big dogs as deterents. They are trained to run up barking and smack the front door when someone approaches it.
        That tends to run off anyone we don't know.
        Of course the people that do know us think nothing of it. As soon as we approach the front door and yell sit all the dogs move back and sit quietly as they are supposed to.
        Mostly though we let them bark and fuss till we look out the window to see who is there.

        If I want feel good, happy, happy I will smoke a joint. For President I want a real plan.

        by J Rae on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:08:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  my dog does the same thing (4.00 / 5)

          he's ridiculously ferocious behind the door.

          Of course, when a ballsy burglurar opens the door, my dog runs off to show him where the silver is kept, and helps carry the TV.

          I love that dog.

          "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." - Voltaire

          by DrFrankLives on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:10:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Trained to run up and smack the door? (4.00 / 3)

          Wow, I never knew our dogs were trained in personal protection, but they run up barking and generally crash into the front door as they do so. And here I thought they were just clumsy balls of fur.  Of course, the terrier/chihuahua mix isn't likely to scare anybody off (although they might die laughing when they watch him try).  However, the 100-lb german shepherd more than makes up for him in the "visible deterrant" department.

          by dianem on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:19:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  LOL (4.00 / 2)

            This has to be one of the easiest things to train your dog to do. Have someone stand outside and ring the door bell, most dogs react with excitement to that anyway. Encourage the running to the door and banging on it with a treat. Then after you have them doing that train them to back off on command and sit. That part is a bit harder but not much.

            If I want feel good, happy, happy I will smoke a joint. For President I want a real plan.

            by J Rae on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:29:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Pet Checklist & Call to STOP SHOOTING DOGS (4.00 / 6)

              Disaster Preparation Checklist

              If at all possible, do not leave animals behind. There is no way of knowing what may happen to your home while you are away, and you may not be able to return for days or even weeks. Animal companions left behind may become malnourished, dehydrated, or crushed by collapsing walls. They may drown or escape in fear and become lost.

              All animals should have collars with identification. Make sure that you have a current photo of your animal companion for identification purposes, the same as you would for a child.
              Place an emergency window sticker near your front door in case a weather emergency or fire strikes when you are not home. This sticker will alert rescuers to animals in your home who need help. Be sure to note how many animals are in the home and where they can be found.

              Have an animal emergency kit readily available. The kit should include a harness and leash or carrier, bottled water, food and water bowls, and dry food. If you have a cat, keep litter and a small litter tray ready to go. Click here to order a PETA Rescue Kit to keep in your car that contains a collapsible carrier, leash, and towel. The kit is helpful if you must grab your animals quickly or if you encounter an animal on the road in need of help. You might also need blankets or sheets to cover carriers and help keep animals calm during transport.

              Hotels often lift their "no pets" policies during emergencies, but keep a list of hotels that always accept companion animals, just in case. (Most Motel 6s accept animals.) Include your local animal shelter's number in your list of emergency numbers--it might be able to provide information during a disaster.

              (Other Hotels/Motels accept Pets, which ones?)

              If you are unable to return to your home right away, you may need to board your animal companion. Most boarding kennels, veterinarians, and animal shelters require medical records to make sure that rabies vaccinations are current, so keep copies of these records with your emergency kit.

              If You Must Leave Your Animal Behind

              Never turn animals loose. Do not tie animals outside or keep them in a vehicle unattended. Leave them in a secure area inside your home.

              Leave out at least 10 days' supply of water. Fill every sink, bowl, pan, and Tupperware container with water, then set them on the floor; do not leave just one container--it may spill. If your toilet bowl is free of chemical disinfectants, leave the toilet seat up to provide animals with one more source of water, but do not let that be the only source.

              Leave out at least 10 days' supply of dry food. Canned food will go rancid quickly.

              If you can't get to your home, contact a reliable neighbor or friend to check on the animals and get them out, if possible. Provide specific instructions on care.

              Helping Wild Animals

              Wild animals may also need our help during severe storms. Strong winds and gusts generated by tropical storms and hurricanes often throw young tree squirrels, flying squirrels, and baby birds from their nests. Flooding from significant rainfall may also force small mammals from their subterranean homes.

              Following severe weather, be sure to search carefully through debris and nearby creeks and streams for animals who have been displaced from their homes. These animals may need help right away. Before inclement weather arrives, check out the National Wildlife Rehabilitators Association Web site and locate the nearest rehabilitator so you'll know whom to contact in the event of an emergency.

              from Peta:
              http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-disasterchecklist.asp

              ......................

              from Peta:
              http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-latestnews.asp

              The Latest News From the Gulf Coast and What You Can Do to Help

              September 9, 2005, 12 p.m.:

              Officials Shooting Dogs in Louisiana--Feds Must Hear from You Today!

              In the latest and most graphic display of our government's abandonment of animal-handling guidelines in disasters that were created with PETA's help years ago, some law enforcement agencies are now shooting dogs left stranded in St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana.

              Revolting video footage posted on the Web site of the Dallas Morning News shows officers shooting dogs. At least one of their victims survived the gunshots and was apparently left to die a slow, agonizing death amid debris from the storm.
              Of course, shooting is not an approved, reasonable, or reliable method of animal control.

              In fact, The 2000 Report of the AVMA [American Veterinary Medical Association] Panel on Euthanasia--the veterinary medical authority on euthanasia--states, "[G]unshot should not be used for routine euthanasia of animals in animal control situations." This dangerous method often fails to achieve instantaneous unconsciousness; animals can be injured by initial gunshots and suffer tremendously before dying, as seems to be happening in St. Bernard Parish. Gunshot is also categorized as an inhumane method of killing in The Humane Society of the United States' "General Statement Regarding Euthanasia Methods for Dogs and Cats."

              This horror for animals, which is but the latest of many to be seen in Katrina's wake, underscores the urgent need for you to call on those in charge, today, to end immediately their callous policies toward animals suffering and to make the plight of animals affected by these disasters a part of planned investigations and hearings.

              September 9, 2005, 10 a.m.: Ask President Bush, Senate Committee to Make Plans for Animals Affected by Future Disasters Part of Their Investigations

              September 8, 2005, 6 p.m.: Distraught Couple Reunited With Forcibly Abandoned Animals; Officials Continue Heavy-Handed Evacuations of Vulnerable Animal Guardians

              September 8, 2005, 11 a.m.: Proceeds From Auction to Support Animal Emergency Fund

              September 7, 2005, 9 p.m.: Americans Urged to Tell New Orleans Officials to Allow Animals to Be Evacuated

              September 7, 2005, 9 a.m.: PETA Dispatches Rescue Team; Rue McClanahan Asks for Compassion for Katrina's Animal Victims

              September 6, 2005, 5:30 p.m.: PETA Asks Lt. Gen. Honore to Allow Companion-Animal Rescues

              many green, yellow, blue and now purple dogs are a majority.

              by Prove Our Democracy with Paper Ballots on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:09:11 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ready preparedness for pet evacs (4.00 / 2)

                Although we live on the eastern shore of Mobile Bay, we haven't evacuated yet(never say never, but with elderly non-ambulatory parents, oxygen, many pets . . . .)  I keep a pet carrier for each pet inside the house, clean and ready to go. The dog carrier is a collapsable one that she knows and likes as a den (standard poodle). My dog will not drink water while traveling in a car or at rest stops.  However, she will lick ice cubes from her dish AFTER we attain freeway speeds and my vibe is in a relaxed state.  (I know it seems like a goofy post, but it will make you CRAZY if your dog, especially a puppy, won't drink.  If you move puppies, unflavored pedialyte is good to keep on hand, since they can crash rather quickly.)

                Note that if cats are stressed and are very hot, and begin to PANT, you should lower their body temperature by placing a cold wet (really wet, not damp) towel in the carrier for them to lay on, and one over them.  (This I learned during fire season in Los Angeles!  I moved from earthquakes to hurricanes; go figure.) Cats can live for long periods with no food but will succumb quickly without fresh water.

                Living on the Gulf Coast, my indoor cats' rabies tags, which they don't wear, are always on my key chain.  The certificates are folded in my credit card wallet 365 days of the year, so I don't have to search for them in an emergency with the possibility of moving interstate.

                Many flashlights and flourescent lanterns are now available using AA batteries and are very lightweight and long lasting.  Rayovac and store brands, at Target and Walgreens,the stand up lanterns were hands down our #1 tool during Ivan, Tropical Storm Cindy ('05), and Katrina. That and a small walkman-size radio with the local television channels' audio feed are always in a basket in the den with a camera (insurance pics) and extra batteries.

                Sorry if these are duplicative.  I'll mind the thread and add more when appropriate.

                Books are humanity in print. Barbara Tuchman

                by gazingoffsouthward on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:37:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  La Quinta Inns (none / 1)

                Accept pets.  They have a limited number of "pet" rooms set aside for regular guests; don't know about emergencies.  Holiday Inn and Hampton often take animals.  None of the Marriott brands accept pets.

                Books are humanity in print. Barbara Tuchman

                by gazingoffsouthward on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 09:44:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Pet accepting hotels (none / 0)

                  Actually, that's not quite true.  The Residence Inn by Marriott hotels will take pets.  In addition to the moderately-priced hotels mentioned above, most high-end hotels will take pets if notified in advance:  Four Seasons and Fairmont for starters.  Also Kimpton Hotels (like the Hotel Monaco mini-chain) all accept pets too, but don't need any notice.

                  - The Great Skeeve

                  by Skeeve on Mon Sep 12, 2005 at 04:43:58 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  If I have to walk out and sleep in the cold... (none / 1)

                my dogs go with me.  I'll sleep in my car before I'll go into a shelter that won't let me take my babies.  I just couldn't live with myself if I left them behind to face danger alone.  They trust me to take care of them.  And my husband feels the same way. The very first thing we take in a crisis is the dogs. Then the cat (she's a pain in the butt, but she's our pain in the butt, besides we can feed her to the dogs if we run out of food ;-)).  Then any valuables we have time to grab. But they go first.  

                One thing that truly breaks my heart in New Orleans is the animals, and thinking about all of the animals that people had to leave behind, because they had no car and the buses and shelters don't take pets.  I had to stop reading what you wrote halfway through at the part about shooting dogs.  I won't be able to sleep tonight if I think about that.

                The big risk in our area is fire.  My husband and I have already talked about where we would meet if the worst happened, and agreed that if there is even a remote risk of a wildfire in our area we are taking the animals to work with us.  Three dogs will cramp our style a bit, but we won't leave them if there is any known risk.

                by dianem on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 10:43:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Shotguns (4.00 / 11)

        are the best firearms for those untrained in their use.
        They are the best close-range weapons, and they do not require precision aiming.  Additionally, given a light enough load, say #4 or #6 shot, they can incapacitate or kill a target with lessened risk of overpenetration (projectiles passing through the target or the drywall behind him.)  20ga is suitable for a home defense shotgun for these reasons, as are the low velocity/recoil rounds that Alpha Geek mentions.

        I don't generally advocate firearms for home defense, because the primary stopper in their use is will.  That is to say that you must be willing to kill someone.  Thinking you will intimidate them or wound them generally won't work.
        I generally advocate dialling 911 from a bedside phone (or the nearest phone) and screaming like crazy.  The cops will come code 3.
        That said, if a person has experience with weapons, the easiest weapons to use are those with which one has experience.  In other words, if you shot an M-16 in the army, you should probably try to find a civilian counterpart to an M-16, and not something like an AK-47, and if your granddad taught you to shoot with a single action revolver, you probably shouldn't buy a .44 Desert Eagle.  In any event, if you are going to use a gun for home defense, you need to practice with it at a range every couple of months or so at a minimum in order that you know what to do when the time comes and you're scared out of your mind.

        "I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a democrat."--Will Rogers

        by soonergrunt on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 02:17:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the great things about shotguns... (none / 1)

          ...is you can modify them to be non-lethal without anyone really KNOWING they're not lethal. Or so I've heard (rocksalt instead of buckshot).

          No one looking at a shotgun and hearing it being loaded is going to KNOW it won't kill them until it's fired so it still has that extra deterant to it. and if you did get hit with the rocksalt, if it's a direct on hit you're going to be in a little too much pain to really affectively counterattack.

          So I've heard.  ANyway it's the only time I'd even consider buying a shotgun.

          You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

          by DawnG on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:06:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If I Had A Reloader... (none / 1)

            I always wanted to create a few 12 gauge "AP" shells consisting of rock salt and peppercorns.

            They'll get to scratch frantically for a few days...

            Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

            by Deacon G on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:16:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  rock salt? (4.00 / 4)

            If I am in my home and the screaming doesn't make the intruder leave I want them DEAD when I pull the trigger.  Rational people don't break into occupied homes and provolk confrontation-while people strung out on Crystal Meth do fairly bizare things.  I don't think I want to rely on the rock salt method of deterring someone who is unlikely to be affected.  If you need the gun, and you point it at someone who is threatening you bodily harm, be prepared to use it to kill them-or they may just use it to bash your brains out once the rock salt is gone.

            by The umpire on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:28:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The First Round's AP, The Rest Lethal (none / 0)

              If the AP round doesn't get his attention, the other four will...

              Then again, I live in Florida; so even coming up to my doorstep screaming is not a good idea anymore.

              Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. --Malcolm X Speaks, 1965

              by Deacon G on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:38:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Sound advice (4.00 / 2)

              If you are going to protect yourself with a gun, understand that it is there to kill, that is what guns do.  Respect its use and know what you are doing by getting educated (gun shops have info classes), pratice and be smart about how you keep the gun at home - your own or visiting children cannot ever, ever be trusted around loose firearms. If you cannot respect the responsibilty that comes with owning a gun and accept the fact that they are there do kill, do not own one.  

              IMPEACH

              by omw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:53:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And use common sense. (4.00 / 2)

                I'm bipolar.  I get moody.  There will never be a gun in any house I live in.  There is just too much chance that I will reach for an easy way out at an extreme moment.  If you have a family member with a temper, or mood problems (depression, bipolarity), or who is just irresponsible get a large dog.  It's damn hard to kill yourself or someone else with a dog, and they are a terrific deterrent against criminals.  

                by dianem on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 10:47:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Just be sure... (none / 0)

              ...to drag the body back into the house if they run after you blast them.  If they die inside, you're covered.  If they die outside, you could be charged with 2nd degree murder.  

              In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

              by ChuckLin on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:03:58 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  no thank you. (none / 0)

              I don't have anything against your argument but I have already made a choice in my life that I do not want to do the "kill or be killed" bit.  My personal belief is that there is much more to fear from killing than from dying.

              I'm going to die no matter what I do.  Spiritually, the when or the how is incosequential.  But actually taking a life...that is something I have the power to chose or not choose.  

              I'm not saying I'm against violence either.  I wouldn't mind learning a martial art for defensive purposes and have no problems harming a person to save my own life, but I won't take a life to save my own.  

              You are entitled to express your opinion. But you are NOT entitled to agreement.

              by DawnG on Sat Sep 10, 2005 at 09:30:24 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  martial arts... (none / 0)

                ...nothing against them, but if you want to learn self-defense via your body, find someone that teaches real, nasty streetfighting techniques, say via a rape protection class.  Don't rely on books that purport to teach you - you need a real body for this purpose.

                I had a friend who was a black belt in a couple of martial art techniques, and they weren't enough to prevent her being raped.

                And do realize that we're talking about range versus battle.  You need a way to make a valid defense at a certain distance versus up close.  

                If a shotgun is not preferred, at a closer distance (but not yet close-in fighting), I would recommend buying a six foot or so hemlock dowell from your hardware store and turning it into a quarterstaff.

                What else can slip past
                An addled old man
                who dreams He vanquished Charlie?                 (via Driftglass)

                by Palamedes on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 05:12:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Wha??? (none / 0)

            Jeebus, this sounds like a LGF thread.

            by smapdi king on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:29:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well.... (none / 1)

              ....we are talking extreme circumstances here.

              And at least no one is talking about the benefits of surplus MG42s yet... ;-)))

              What else can slip past
              An addled old man
              who dreams He vanquished Charlie?               (via Driftglass)

              by Palamedes on Sun Sep 11, 2005 at 05:13:05 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Guns! AlphaGeek spawns lefty survivalist movement (4.00 / 5)

          Now all we need--for real--to take this country back--are teams of atheist missinaries. Seriously if more ex-boomers in birkenstocks are spotted at firing ranges honing their skill--the repubs will run for cover. The NRA will be turned inside out. Let's do it.

          I'm scared of guns but I'm willing to do this to survive. Just want to know if I can have a white gun with a pearl handle, like the one Nancy Reagan claimed to keep in her nightstand.

          by darcarama on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:17:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  They are the Polaroid of home defense... (none / 0)

          You know, point and click!

          Know your enemy - Rage Against the Machine

          by duck on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:15:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Just make (none / 1)

        sure there are no gas leaks (a common problem in earthquakes) before you let loose with an electric stun device. kabooooooom

        IMPEACH

        by omw on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 03:14:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  An essential tool is (none / 1)

          the special "thingy" you have to own, and find, to turn off the gas in the yard.  Don't do it unless the authorities tell you to, or you smell the scent they put in it to make it detectable, because it may be days or weeks before the gas co. can get to you to turn it on.

          Books are humanity in print. Barbara Tuchman

          by gazingoffsouthward on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 07:56:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Shotgun, 45 or 357 and location (none / 0)

        I have some friends who are convinced they need a gun, and the advice I gave them was to purchase a shotgun first, and also to learn how to use a pistol.  I prefer a higher caliber, semi-automatic like a 45, but a 357 magnum is a sight to behold too (hand cannons usually instill fear, and they're loud as hell).  As always, if you point a gun at someone, you should be prepared to kill them, end of story.  Most people who have guns know this, but many who don't understand weapons like this probably don't have that philosophy figured out.

        My third choice for a weapon, after these is a long range rifle and a scope.  Perfect for rooftops, or situations where you can shoot and displace.  I watched Hotel Rwanda on DVD, and got depressed, because that can happen to us here in America.  In fact, after seeing the Federal response to New Orleans (all those kids locked and loaded looking to shoot people, who simply wanted some water and for their baby to live), it is clear that arming oneself isn't necessarily a bad idea.

        The other thing I think needs to be said is that having all the provisions in the world won't help you if it is buried under your house.  Situations occur where you won't have access to your stuff, fire, for instance.  Not only do you need to be prepared, but your neighbors do too...so that you don't have to fend them off when things get ugly (or they don't have to fend you off).  Worst case scenario is that the food simply doesn't come...and it takes a year to grow stuff.  Armageddon?  Ack!

        The MSM is propaganda.

        by mmuskratt on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 04:04:26 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  hunting rifles are advisable (none / 0)

          if you're a skillful marksperson who happens to have a little land between your home and the road; a 30-30 or 30-06 slug in the engine block of an approaching vehicle will give your potential attackers pause.

          In every stage of these Oppressions...: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury." DoI, TJ

          by ChuckLin on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:07:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Hard to hold a 12 gauge (none / 0)

        while holding a squirmy 2 year old.

        Not an option for me.

        by suzq on Fri Sep 09, 2005 at 05:48:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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